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Sedans Lexus GS Lexus GS 300/GS 430
3068 messages, Last post on Sep 18, 2009 at 6:41 AM
You are in the Lexus GS Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens
| Yeah that is a good question. The '05 Avalon has heaps more power, more room, and in Limited trim, basically 98% as much luxury. I have to wonder in '07 when the ES gets redesigned, why Lexus wouldnt base an ES350 around the Avalon, rather than the Camry. | |
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Furst, Two Tings: Furst Ting: I said that a while ago! I have already stated that the 3.5 should make it's debut in the GS 'round the LS introducion in Fall of '06. Second ting: There are reasons to buy the ES! Obviously the service, the fact that a lot of people don't want to buy a first year car (yes, even a mighty 'Yota!), and obviously the look is more upscale, not as generous and conservative. Driving a Lexus adds prestige to any driveway (despite what Merc would have you believe). I wouldn't throw away an ES just yet, as evidenced by the HUGE sales spike in '04 with the upgraded engine! The ES will be just fine. Many makers wish they could sell one sedan, one trim level, and scored 75k a year! DrFill |
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I guess I don't see any prestige in two very, very unattractive cars, therefore the one that represents the better value should come to the front, the Avalon...imho. Come to think of it I don't see any prestige any Lexus until you reach the GS,SC,LS level because the Avalon could just be rebaged as a Lexus and ES330 buyers wouldn't know the difference. Lots of serious overlap going on between what is supposed to be a regular Toyota and a exclusive luxury brand. callmedrfill, "I have already stated that the 3.5 should make it's debut in the GS 'round the LS introducion in Fall of '06." Sorry I didn't see where you said that already. M |
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You also missed the "Who rebadges" discussion as well? I don't know if it was in this topic, but it should be common knowledge (by now) that 'Yota/Lexus doesn't "Rebadge", they share platforms and engines, but make truly different vehicles off a given platform. GM is still trying to emerge from the rebadged womb, if you will. DrFill |
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Well I wasn't saying that is what Toyota does, I'm saying that if they did re-badge the 2006 Avalon as a Lexus, Lexus buyers wouldn't know the difference mainly because of the interior amd exterior designs. That and the fact that it is bigger and more powerful makes the supposed to be better luxury-branded ES330 look a little obsolete imo. There certainly isn't a styling advantage on either either side of the fence either. Actually Toyota does do some rebadging, specially with "Lexus" vehicles being the same and simply badged as "Toyota" in Japan, yes I know that is about to change. There is no difference between whatever the LS is called in Japan, the Toyota "......" and the Lexus LS430 sold everywhere else, that is badge work. I agree about GM, they're famous for it. What they're doing to Saab is about the worst thing I can think of on the automotive landscape. What are the specs on the GS450h? V8+electrics or V6+electrics??? M |
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China I care about. Why? Remember the huge cement short a couple of years ago, that slowed our housing starts in this country? China is building all the highway they car to become the #1 car market on Earth. I wonder who will really win there. I guess by 2015 we should get a sense for it. If you rebadge cars in the same country, then you have a beef. If you rebadge something no one here has eber seen, it's all butter, baby! That's called smart business. Anyway, the Avalon is way too big to be an ES, as it would step on the LS's size. DrFill |
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| What you get with the ES over the Avalon is the service that comes with a Lexus badge. Toyota dealerships are rediculously busy, and Toyota certainly doesnt come to your house and pick up your car for service or anything like that. The '05 Avalon really is a better value than the '05 ES, but you dont get the "Lexus experience" with an Avalon. | |
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I guess that could be a reason, but still. M
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| I definitely agree that Lexus will need to move the ES a bit further upmarket if they dont want the new Avalon to start canibalizing sales. | |
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The ES has a larger, happier customer base to sell to. The Avalon is positioned as a family car, but now with excellent luxury. I don't think any Lexus customer will leave Lexus to go to a Toyota store, just on service. I don't even believe Toyota cares! As long as they keep the sale in the family, the margins are similar, price similar. Avalon's conquest sales should be LaSabres, Bonnevilles, Maximas. I don't expect more from the next ES than the 245HP 3.0. DrFill |
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