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Lexus GS 300/GS 430

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#1155 of 3068 bartalk2 by lexusguy Jan 26, 2005 (9:23 pm)
Thats what makes the M35 such a strong buy right now. It's already got the 3.5L motor ready to go, and its the fastest V6 in the segment The '06 GS300 is pretty much guaranteed to be slower. I wouldnt expect it to be a slug like the old car, but I'm not sure it could beat an RL either. Replies to this message: oac (Jan 26, 2005 9:38 pm)
#1156 of 3068 Re: bartalk2 [lexusguy] by oac Jan 26, 2005 (9:38 pm)
Replying to: lexusguy (Jan 26, 2005 9:23 pm) But an M35 ain't a Lexus is it ? Infiniti, despite their recent successes with the G and FX, have not risen to the level occupied by the likes of Lexus/MB/BMW. If only a car can define a brand, maybe it will be the G, but the M is gonna have to have lots of traction to gain attention and uppend BMW or Lexus here. Granted the M35/45 looks like a pair of good looking cars, but, and a BIG one, they have no real market history, and the one they had over the past 2 years is nothing to gloat about. Besides, doesn't the Max and the Q45 have the same pair of engines as the M twins ? I don't see these two setting sales records in their sectors, or do they ?
#1157 of 3068 oac by lexusguy Jan 26, 2005 (9:44 pm)
The G35 destroys the IS300 in sales. Just having a L badge on the front cant guarantee a victory for Lexus if Infiniti legitimately has the better car. Consumers are smarter than that these days. The M35 isnt a Nissan Maxima.
#1158 of 3068 lexusguy by oac Jan 26, 2005 (9:48 pm)
Granted, an "L" isn't a guarantee of success, BUT it sure buys one. IMO, its gonna be the total package of the GS vs the M that will do the trick. Maybe the M will win out, but we do not know for sure at present. And please do not go by the sentiments of the minority crowd here on Edmunds to judge how a car will perform in the market. This forum only caters mostly to hard-core enthusiasts. And we know how much land mass those people cover in the world of car shoppers/buyers.   If Infiniti advertises the M as they did for the Q45, it will guarantee it to FAIL. That much I can surmise.
#1159 of 3068 oac by lexusguy Jan 26, 2005 (9:51 pm)
The Q45 failed because it was a poor car with a sloppy suspension, and it was generally blasted in the press. So far the press is gushing for the M. Whens the last time you saw a Ferrari ad? If the product is there, consumers will buy.
#1160 of 3068 But by oac Jan 26, 2005 (10:12 pm)
The universe of Ferrari buyers is soooooooooo small compared to mainstream cars... Resale of all Infiniti cars still suck, and the Q45 is basically a good car, with no Soul. Infiniti could not decide wether it was a sporty-lux, or a luxo-sport, or just plain lux car. Ultimately, it wore too many skins and never quite got the traction. The press didn't do as much damage to the Q as Infiniti itself did to the car.   But we digress, this is a forum about the new GS afterall. As long as the GS comes with the 3 (or 4) engine variants - 3L/AWD, 3.5L, 4.6L, and 450h, Lexus will do just fine.
#1161 of 3068 lexusguy by bartalk2 Jan 26, 2005 (10:18 pm)
I agree with OAC here about Infiniti: it ain't a Lexus. Moreover, what makes me wary of the M35 is that, in my view, since its turnaround under Ghosn, Nissan has been bringing out too many cars/trucks/SUVs too fast. I don't think they've been as careful as heretofore in the rush to get a lot of product to market quickly.   Also, Nissan seems to be becoming the Japanese Pontiac, with all sorts of boy racer designs. The current Maxima, e.g., is, frankly, weird and over the top and almost vulgar in design, and I don't think as durable as earlier models.
#1162 of 3068 oac by lexusguy Jan 26, 2005 (10:41 pm)
I guess you havent looked at the resale values of G35 of FX? Post Ghosn Infiniti's have VERY strong residual values, better than Audi.   "Infiniti: it ain't a Lexus" How is that a bad thing? Lexus has all sorts of concerns to worry about in terms of its image, how its typical customers will react to sport vs. luxury, etc. Lexus tried to make a sports sedan and it was a flop. Nobody knew Infiniti existed until G35 hit the scene. Infiniti has no image of cars to protect. They are free to do what they want, and they are selling G35s and FX35\45s by the boat load. I dont think M sales will be trouble for them at all. I think Acura is probably shaking in their boots right about now, though.
#1163 of 3068 by merc1 Jan 26, 2005 (11:21 pm)
I have to agree with lexusguy here. Infiniti is the one that has the most to gain and they're not tied to a stuffy image of boring luxury-only cars like Lexus is. The problem with the IS and and GS is that most Lexus buyers were not are probably still won't be even remotely interested in "sport" so no matter how good the GS and IS are/were, no one shopping at a Lexus store cared. Infiniti on the other hand is crafting their performance image in the exact way BMW did with all sporty cars, even the sportiest SUV this side of a Cayenne.   Even if the GS does match the new M (which I doubt) how does Lexus market the IS and GS it along the very staid and boring LS and ES all the while maintaining the traditional Lexus values? Lexus is trying to have it both ways, only time will tell if they can.   I also think Acura's RL will have its coming out party ruined by this time next year.   M
#1164 of 3068 merc1 by lexusguy Jan 26, 2005 (11:27 pm)
I think, at least in the short term, as Infiniti continues to gain strength, it will be largely at the expense of Acura. Just as Audi is the doomed middle child between BMW and Mercedes, with certain characteristics of both companies products, Acura is headed in the same direction. They cant match Infiniti in sport, and they cant match Lexus in luxury. They also cant throw money and new products around like Infiniti and Lexus can.

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