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Lexus GS 300/GS 430

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What is this discussion about? Lexus GS 300, Lexus GS 430, Sedan

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#1157 of 3068 oac by lexusguy Jan 26, 2005 (9:44 pm)
The G35 destroys the IS300 in sales. Just having a L badge on the front cant guarantee a victory for Lexus if Infiniti legitimately has the better car. Consumers are smarter than that these days. The M35 isnt a Nissan Maxima.
#1158 of 3068 lexusguy by oac Jan 26, 2005 (9:48 pm)
Granted, an "L" isn't a guarantee of success, BUT it sure buys one. IMO, its gonna be the total package of the GS vs the M that will do the trick. Maybe the M will win out, but we do not know for sure at present. And please do not go by the sentiments of the minority crowd here on Edmunds to judge how a car will perform in the market. This forum only caters mostly to hard-core enthusiasts. And we know how much land mass those people cover in the world of car shoppers/buyers.   If Infiniti advertises the M as they did for the Q45, it will guarantee it to FAIL. That much I can surmise.
#1159 of 3068 oac by lexusguy Jan 26, 2005 (9:51 pm)
The Q45 failed because it was a poor car with a sloppy suspension, and it was generally blasted in the press. So far the press is gushing for the M. Whens the last time you saw a Ferrari ad? If the product is there, consumers will buy.
#1160 of 3068 But by oac Jan 26, 2005 (10:12 pm)
The universe of Ferrari buyers is soooooooooo small compared to mainstream cars... Resale of all Infiniti cars still suck, and the Q45 is basically a good car, with no Soul. Infiniti could not decide wether it was a sporty-lux, or a luxo-sport, or just plain lux car. Ultimately, it wore too many skins and never quite got the traction. The press didn't do as much damage to the Q as Infiniti itself did to the car.   But we digress, this is a forum about the new GS afterall. As long as the GS comes with the 3 (or 4) engine variants - 3L/AWD, 3.5L, 4.6L, and 450h, Lexus will do just fine.
#1161 of 3068 lexusguy by bartalk2 Jan 26, 2005 (10:18 pm)
I agree with OAC here about Infiniti: it ain't a Lexus. Moreover, what makes me wary of the M35 is that, in my view, since its turnaround under Ghosn, Nissan has been bringing out too many cars/trucks/SUVs too fast. I don't think they've been as careful as heretofore in the rush to get a lot of product to market quickly.   Also, Nissan seems to be becoming the Japanese Pontiac, with all sorts of boy racer designs. The current Maxima, e.g., is, frankly, weird and over the top and almost vulgar in design, and I don't think as durable as earlier models.
#1162 of 3068 oac by lexusguy Jan 26, 2005 (10:41 pm)
I guess you havent looked at the resale values of G35 of FX? Post Ghosn Infiniti's have VERY strong residual values, better than Audi.   "Infiniti: it ain't a Lexus" How is that a bad thing? Lexus has all sorts of concerns to worry about in terms of its image, how its typical customers will react to sport vs. luxury, etc. Lexus tried to make a sports sedan and it was a flop. Nobody knew Infiniti existed until G35 hit the scene. Infiniti has no image of cars to protect. They are free to do what they want, and they are selling G35s and FX35\45s by the boat load. I dont think M sales will be trouble for them at all. I think Acura is probably shaking in their boots right about now, though.
#1163 of 3068 by merc1 Jan 26, 2005 (11:21 pm)
I have to agree with lexusguy here. Infiniti is the one that has the most to gain and they're not tied to a stuffy image of boring luxury-only cars like Lexus is. The problem with the IS and and GS is that most Lexus buyers were not are probably still won't be even remotely interested in "sport" so no matter how good the GS and IS are/were, no one shopping at a Lexus store cared. Infiniti on the other hand is crafting their performance image in the exact way BMW did with all sporty cars, even the sportiest SUV this side of a Cayenne.   Even if the GS does match the new M (which I doubt) how does Lexus market the IS and GS it along the very staid and boring LS and ES all the while maintaining the traditional Lexus values? Lexus is trying to have it both ways, only time will tell if they can.   I also think Acura's RL will have its coming out party ruined by this time next year.   M
#1164 of 3068 merc1 by lexusguy Jan 26, 2005 (11:27 pm)
I think, at least in the short term, as Infiniti continues to gain strength, it will be largely at the expense of Acura. Just as Audi is the doomed middle child between BMW and Mercedes, with certain characteristics of both companies products, Acura is headed in the same direction. They cant match Infiniti in sport, and they cant match Lexus in luxury. They also cant throw money and new products around like Infiniti and Lexus can.
#1165 of 3068 by merc1 Jan 26, 2005 (11:33 pm)
That is very true. If the current RL goes 9 years like the previous one, they'll be right back where they started from. Acura is also limted by not having a proper rwd platform for a flagship vehicle. A re-cast or lengthened RL won't play in the S-Class/LS/A8/7-Series arena.   While I agree that Audi is in similar postion I think they have a better chance to grow once they get some more 2-door models and crossovers in the lineup, that and their styling which unlike Acura's does cause a reaction..whether good (A8) or bad (A6's grille). At least it is something to talk about, Acura's styling is still very much forgettable across to board, imo. Audis are too imo just as luxurious as any Mercedes, especially the A6 and A8, but they haven't matched BMW yet on the sport side. When they do it seems that they miss the right balance between ride and handling, per some recent roadtests of the A8 and new A6. I seem to read where the ride is either too soft of too hard.   Acura seems to be content with the 25-40K market with one 50K car. We could be talking about a "problem" that Acura doesn't feel they have or see a need to address. Just a thought.   M
#1166 of 3068 5 Series and E-Class by caltri Jan 27, 2005 (12:33 am)
I am not ready to rub my hands together in anticipation to see the new GS sell in huge volumes. In the mid-size luxury sedan market, if customers want luxury, the E-Class is peerless with no other viable substitute. For a more sporty demeanor, the 5 Series reigns supreme. My reaction if the new GS repeats its predecessor's humiliating past would be as dismissing as a pro-skier on a bunny slope.   Here, in West L.A., where there is an abundance of wealth and a premium placed upon style, it is not difficult to understand why there is a lack of Japanese luxury vehicles rolling along the Sunset Strip. With Mercedes' unbeatable cachet, advanced technology, and success in the horsepower battle, along with BMW's nonpareil driving dynamics and quality interiors, and the Range Rover as the unequivocal off-roading luxury SUV, why would any of Southern California's elite settle for something as bland as Lexus or as ugly as Infiniti? Mercedes and BMW are their cars of choice. And the uppercrust prefers brands like Bentley, Maybach, and Rolls-Ryce, which are actually owned by German luxury companies anyway.

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