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Sedans Lexus GS Lexus GS 300/GS 430
3068 messages, Last post on Sep 18, 2009 at 6:41 AM
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I agree with OAC here about Infiniti: it ain't a Lexus. Moreover, what makes me wary of the M35 is that, in my view, since its turnaround under Ghosn, Nissan has been bringing out too many cars/trucks/SUVs too fast. I don't think they've been as careful as heretofore in the rush to get a lot of product to market quickly. Also, Nissan seems to be becoming the Japanese Pontiac, with all sorts of boy racer designs. The current Maxima, e.g., is, frankly, weird and over the top and almost vulgar in design, and I don't think as durable as earlier models. |
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I guess you havent looked at the resale values of G35 of FX? Post Ghosn Infiniti's have VERY strong residual values, better than Audi. "Infiniti: it ain't a Lexus" How is that a bad thing? Lexus has all sorts of concerns to worry about in terms of its image, how its typical customers will react to sport vs. luxury, etc. Lexus tried to make a sports sedan and it was a flop. Nobody knew Infiniti existed until G35 hit the scene. Infiniti has no image of cars to protect. They are free to do what they want, and they are selling G35s and FX35\45s by the boat load. I dont think M sales will be trouble for them at all. I think Acura is probably shaking in their boots right about now, though. |
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I have to agree with lexusguy here. Infiniti is the one that has the most to gain and they're not tied to a stuffy image of boring luxury-only cars like Lexus is. The problem with the IS and and GS is that most Lexus buyers were not are probably still won't be even remotely interested in "sport" so no matter how good the GS and IS are/were, no one shopping at a Lexus store cared. Infiniti on the other hand is crafting their performance image in the exact way BMW did with all sporty cars, even the sportiest SUV this side of a Cayenne. Even if the GS does match the new M (which I doubt) how does Lexus market the IS and GS it along the very staid and boring LS and ES all the while maintaining the traditional Lexus values? Lexus is trying to have it both ways, only time will tell if they can. I also think Acura's RL will have its coming out party ruined by this time next year. M |
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| I think, at least in the short term, as Infiniti continues to gain strength, it will be largely at the expense of Acura. Just as Audi is the doomed middle child between BMW and Mercedes, with certain characteristics of both companies products, Acura is headed in the same direction. They cant match Infiniti in sport, and they cant match Lexus in luxury. They also cant throw money and new products around like Infiniti and Lexus can. | |
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That is very true. If the current RL goes 9 years like the previous one, they'll be right back where they started from. Acura is also limted by not having a proper rwd platform for a flagship vehicle. A re-cast or lengthened RL won't play in the S-Class/LS/A8/7-Series arena. While I agree that Audi is in similar postion I think they have a better chance to grow once they get some more 2-door models and crossovers in the lineup, that and their styling which unlike Acura's does cause a reaction..whether good (A8) or bad (A6's grille). At least it is something to talk about, Acura's styling is still very much forgettable across to board, imo. Audis are too imo just as luxurious as any Mercedes, especially the A6 and A8, but they haven't matched BMW yet on the sport side. When they do it seems that they miss the right balance between ride and handling, per some recent roadtests of the A8 and new A6. I seem to read where the ride is either too soft of too hard. Acura seems to be content with the 25-40K market with one 50K car. We could be talking about a "problem" that Acura doesn't feel they have or see a need to address. Just a thought. M |
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I am not ready to rub my hands together in anticipation to see the new GS sell in huge volumes. In the mid-size luxury sedan market, if customers want luxury, the E-Class is peerless with no other viable substitute. For a more sporty demeanor, the 5 Series reigns supreme. My reaction if the new GS repeats its predecessor's humiliating past would be as dismissing as a pro-skier on a bunny slope. Here, in West L.A., where there is an abundance of wealth and a premium placed upon style, it is not difficult to understand why there is a lack of Japanese luxury vehicles rolling along the Sunset Strip. With Mercedes' unbeatable cachet, advanced technology, and success in the horsepower battle, along with BMW's nonpareil driving dynamics and quality interiors, and the Range Rover as the unequivocal off-roading luxury SUV, why would any of Southern California's elite settle for something as bland as Lexus or as ugly as Infiniti? Mercedes and BMW are their cars of choice. And the uppercrust prefers brands like Bentley, Maybach, and Rolls-Ryce, which are actually owned by German luxury companies anyway. |
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"BMW's nonpareil driving dynamics and quality interiors" Thats no longer true. It doesnt sound like the particular drivers your speaking of are concerned with sporty driving anyway, they are solely concerned with the badge on the front of the car, and continue to fork over $5-10K more for it. As for the US as a whole, it used to be much the same way around 15 years ago. Mercedes was invincible. Lexus showed them a thing or two. Guess who's the #1 seller now? I'll give you a hint, its not German.
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Replying to: lexusguy (Jan 27, 2005 4:40 am) My wife owns a Lexus. No trouble and an absolute pleasure to have it serviced. (My extended family owns two other's with the same experience.) Back in 1989 or 1990 my father was choosing between the just introduced Lexus LS and an Infiniti Q. We drove both and at the time he was 100% Lexus and I was the opposite. I believe it was then that I realized that Lexus was emulating Mercedes and Infiniti was emulating BMW with their philosophy and products. I now find Lexus to be a more reliable and better valued Mercedes in a way. This is also why I am upset over the GS300awd engine being left behind by the E350/awd as well as its Japanese 3.5L GS counterpart, the RL/awd and the M/awd. Why not put your best foot forward Lexus?
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Replying to: 00boxsters (Jan 27, 2005 5:57 am) Maybe they have when they the new avalon rolls into the dealerships next week. This would also solve your reliability issue with the E. I have an E for the MRS. but can't keep her out of my avalon, maybe it just seems that way since the E spends a lot of time in the shop. |
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They are stubborn, don't care what Americans want in a luxury car, and build according to what parts/engines/platforms they have available. They are smart, but too smart for their own good. They think they know more than the buyer. Sure-fire way to underachieve. Infiniti's ceiling is the extent of the first (rotten) impression they made on the US market. Lexus doesn't sweat Infiniti, nor should they! They are Audi-esque (remember the Audi 5000 debacle). They can make great cars, but they are their own worst enemy. And even though I am no big fan of the new GS, it is LIGHT YEARS better-looking than the M. The way Nissan styles there cars just turns my stomach. They've had some stunning successes recently, but when they are bad, they are AWFUL! I'd rather be conservative than just rancid! They just throw darts at a board sometimes! You know what I wish Lexus would do. Split the company into subdivisions, with seperate marketing budgets, and seperate agendas and specs based off each other. Have the ES/LS as the luxury sedan clique. Have the GS/IS as a sports clique (and get the SC there QUICKLY). And Group the SUV's together, like they already have in last year's successful ad campaign. Then in a few years, market the Hybrid class together. And build that SUV from the '03 Auto show circuit! That was sweet! And big! It was bigger than a SRX, but just so elegant. That would be huge here! So in closing, Acura is a non factor. Infiniti is deadman walking (the G35 is the seeing-eye dog). Audi is a borne second-fiddle, and VW is dumbing it down. And once Lexus sharpens this sporting edge it's considering, and brings out the hybrids, this game is all over but the crying. DrFill |
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