Last post on Oct 16, 2013 at 7:57 PM
You are in the Chrysler 300M
What is this discussion about?
Chrysler 300M, Sedan
This topic covers any issues related to hard starting, no starts, stalling and erratic idling problems.
#121 of 232 Re: Stalling at red lights, erratic acceleration, and CEL on [kcorrea]
May 25, 2011 (8:09 pm)
A secondary consideration , when it comes to any engine , in terms of ticking sounds , hard starting , coughing , rough idle , irratic acceleration etc. conditions , is that all engines require the proper (factory calibrated) sparkplugs to be installed and used for many reasons , as opposed to other aftermarket or incorrect sparkplugs.
Incorrect sparkplugs are of a higher concern on engines where there is no fulltime fan cooling the engine. As with the 300m and others , electric fans only come on when the engine temperature is "abnormal" , which can if the electric fans come on frequently , cause the fans to wear out abnormally , or cause relays to overheat as well. Any time a relay overheats or fails (burned) , the rest of the electrical system is at risk.
Because the 300m is only cooled by the twin fans attached to the radiator , the engine may operate in an abnormal condition , if the fans don't turn on when needed properly. If the engine is overheating (proper sparkplugs keep the engine running normally) , the piston rings , valves , valvesprings , valveguides , lifters , cam , oilpump , waterpump , air conditioning compressor , alternator , wiring , plenum , egr valve , exhaust , power steering pump , transmission etc. are all wearing abnormally , and in the case of the engine , create extra sludge in the oilpan , which is actually crushed , mushed up metal. The proper sparkplugs for the 3.5L engine in the 300m are : NGK ZFR5LP-13G , which are Laser Platinum Premium sparkplugs. No others should be used as they will cause all sorts of problems within a week or so. Aftermarket sparkplugs should only be used on engines that have a fulltime fan that runs off of the belts , but there are exceptions. Any good parts store will warn you or suggest the proper sparkplugs for the 3.5L on the 300m , as their customers have found out that other sparkplugs don't work properly , as the NGK's do.
In the 300m , any time your engine is idling in traffic , it is not getting much air from the front air grills , and if your electric fans/relays are malfunctioning , you are actually running your engine without any air cooling at all. It is also important to have the proper mixture of coolant and water in your radiator , as the proper sparkplugs alone will allow the engine to run much cooler , and you will see that on your temperature gauge in the dash after replacement. Not to mention your gas mileage , a hot running engine will burn more fuel.
Regardless of what any garage mechanic may try to tell you , you should insist on installing the proper sparkplugs in your 300m 3.5L engine. It will save you alot of trouble if you do. These are the factory installed sparkplugs that the manufacturer has calibrated to the engine , where it is claimed that your first service or tune up will be in the 100,000 mile range , by design.
#122 of 232 Re: Stalling at red lights, erratic acceleration, and CEL on [kcorrea]
May 25, 2011 (8:34 pm)
There is yet another factor , in making sure your engine has the proper sparkplugs installed. Any time you install the incorrect sparkplugs , your engine cylinders are not completely igniting all of the gas that your injectors spray into the cylinders , making it so that your exhaust manifolds , catalytic converters , resonators , pipes and mufflers : are all collecting both gas and condensed water pockets , which cause your exhaust system to rot (holes form in certain areas).
All the while , if your engine begins to malfunction , and you get your systems checked , the meters can read incorrectly due to all of these factors. In other words , an O2 sensor reading can be incorrect , if the sparkplugs don't burn all of the fuel being injected into the cylinders , while the O2 sensor itself is OK. That is why replacing these parts only works temporarily. The first thing any customer should notice about new cars , is that their exhaust systems appear as dry , and remain hot or heated. In used vehicles , this is a telltale sign , as a wet exhaust or one that appears to be discoloured or rusting abnormally , is a sign that the vehicle has not been properly maintained by a good reputable mechanic. To the contrary , a very dry or superfically rusting exhaust system , is a sign that only the elements have played a role in the deterioration of the exhaust system.
In other words , much can be told simply by looking at what is coming out of the exhaust pipes ends on a used or new car. Dripping water , is a sign that the car has either been sitting and not run , or that the entire exhaust system has been exposed to unburned fuel/water buildup for ?? amount of time. These telltale signs can also be a factor in determining whether or not the vehicle will pass emission tests of any sort , or be in a condition where system analysis metering may cause you to both buy or install accessory components , that the vehicle doesn't necessarily need in the future to diagnose problems. Any good vehicle , will have a good exhaust system , one that hasn't been exposed to fuel contaminations/deterioration.
#123 of 232 Re: 2003 300M Hard Starting [dmorri3035]
May 25, 2011 (9:38 pm)
There are a few rules of thumb I use to determine what may be causing some hard or intermittent starting issues , other than what may be some sort of serious cause.
Firstly and foremost , is that the battery terminals must be clean , or in a condition where I have cleaned them recently (within 6mths) with a battery terminal cleaner , to ensure good contact with the computer in this case , as there is no distributor on the 300m 3.5L engine. Because there is only the PCM etc. extra attention must also be placed on 2ndly , the sparkplugs. They should be the correct factory sparkplugs.
Lastly , the short ground straps that are connected to the engine and the firewall or fender , should not be badly rusted or almost seperating , while the connecting rings should also not be badly rusted. If they are rusted , they should be cleaned or replaced. Chrysler vehicles have always relied upon those groundstraps for ignition power , they are not just there for show , or for extra grounding purposes. They are critical.
IE : When I bought my first car , it was a 1969 Dodge Charger , 383ci. and a friend and I planned to take the car to his cottage for the weekend. We got our work schedules correct , collected our fishing rods etc. for the weekend and loaded it all into the car at the last minute , about an hour before dark , and got into the car to go. I attempted to start the engine , which was fine , I had just drove it to the house after work , and it failed to make any sort of sound. DEAD. I got out of the car to check things , and after about 10 minutes , I saw that the ground strap on the driver's side had been moving with the engine twisting motion , and it had broken into 2 pieces. So.. I took the ring connector off of the engine and remounted the ring onto the broken end which still reached long enough , and put it back on the engine , and bolted it back down to the firewall. I got in the car , and away she went , with no subsequent problems.
In the case of the 300m , the engine actually does rely also , upon the vent slits in the fender wells for cooling purposes. This makes it so that the PCM area is exposed to the elements coming through the grills to some extent. That also means , that the PCM area , and it's components must be free of corrosion : as it is the source by which the engine acquires power to create spark at the sparkplugs , and all electrical engine components also rely upon it as well. It's best to check that the grounding portions of the PCM are clean , and with good contact to the fender mountings. Just because the headlights work , doesn't mean that the ignition portions of the PCM have ample ground in conjuction with the battery positive and ground or the alternator. Due to wiring that is contained within the dashboard , some ground ring contacts , their wiring and others can be effected by simply removing dash parts. Also , if you improve the ground somewhere in the engine compartment , a short circuiting groundwire in the dash will be increased , and may also cause things to change or get worse. That is why you should check these ground ring contacts when in the dash , and all of their length of wire to where they exit or go through the firewall to ensure that they are OK. Usually , the dash wiring is OK , 99% of the time , so it is safe to service the engine compartment wiring or contacts.
Replacing the groundstraps on the engine is an integral part of the ignition system that connects the dash wiring ignition switch etc. to the frame grounds , and the battery ground cable which may attach to the starter or engine itself. All in all , it's just best to make sure they are not too rusted to conduct electricity. You can check this with a voltmeter , simply by removing the ground strap and connecting the 2 wires of the meter to the ends of the strap to see if there is good continuity. If the meter spikes and returns to 0 , intermittently , the strap is cooked , and not any good , needing replacement. Simple , but it is part of the ignition system. Don't forget that the ground straps also play a role while the engine is running , so a bad strap can cause running problems.
#124 of 232 Re: starting [janeann]
May 25, 2011 (10:03 pm)
Firstly , if the starter is not turning properly all the time , you have to check 2 things. Starting with the battery , which I think should have been an Interstate Mega Tron II with 885 CCA of power. Given the 300m's have high output alternators , I have my 2002 300m Special with it's original in it , still sparks when I connect the integral ground post to the fender , and I have seen even 1997's at the scrapyard with the exact same battery , so it stands to reason that that battery is the original factory installation.
Far be it , for a battery to last 10 or 15 years , but that is the case. Obviously , the battery terminals must be clean inside , not on top only. If the battery is OK , then the starter may be the problem , and some of them can actually be causing a short to the ignition in some cases , especially where they are in rough or worn condition. As may be with an older car. If the starter is OK , then it shouldn't struggle to turn the motor , as the 3.5L engine isn't all that big , it's more like an intermediate sized starter motor. If it seems to snag , with a good battery , it's armature is worn out.
It sounds to me like your starter is gone , and it's even effecting the power circuits of the ignition. Which means it should immediately be removed before it causes any damage to the PCM etc. Any good starter/battery combination in the 300m's should turn over the 3.5L easily , unless you have an engine which is too tight for some reason. Mine turns over like a Honda , even while both the battery and the starter are original with 238,000km's on them.
May 25, 2011 (10:49 pm)
If I were in your shoes , I wouldn't spend time or money on the tierod ends , until the car is running properly. In making the car run properly , you'll have to get the sparkplugs checked , that they are the correct ones , because any sparkplugs that are not the original factory installed replacements , will cause the engine to run abnormally. The correct sparkplugs for the 3.5L engine are : NGK ZFR5LP-13G Laser Platinum Premium Sparkplugs. Specifically , the Laser sparkplugs will require less electrical power to produce a large amount of spark to ignite the fuel mixture 100%. If you can find someone who will remove at least 1 sparkplug from any of the 6 cylinders , you can determine which "wrong" sparkplugs you may have. Just because Bosch makes some sort of 4-pronged grounding contact , doesn't mean they will work better in any application , as the heatrange and spark intensity is important in conjuction with the engine fuel injectors. So.. you see you have to match sparkplugs with fuel injectors these days to have correct starting and running characteristics. Once you have verified that the engine runs good , and doesn't stall anymore , you could replace the tierod ends. If you replace tierod ends , you may also require a front end alignment , so that your tires don't start wearing abnormally , which could be an expense as well. These things are really budget oriented , but in some cases where you put the front suspension out of wack , you will need alignment as well immediately. Tierod ends on the 300m are simple , so you might be able to replace 1 without any alignment , if you did that , it would be dependant upon your budget , and whether the new tierod is causing tire wear.
I just bought a 2002 300m Special , and replaced all 6 sparkplugs with the NGK's , which were already in the car , but original , and I noticed that the temperature gauge doesn't move (while there is both either heat or air conditioning) , until I reach the highway. Prior to changing the sparkplugs the engine reached the same temperature much quicker , where the needle is at the first increment prior to half way on the gauge. It remains there at all times once warmed up , which is normal.
I would really recommend changing the sparkplugs , and absolutely insist on getting the proper Laser ones , as the supplier I bought them from confirmed , that any other types of sparkplugs in these engines will not work properly. But , I had already decided to install the NGK's as original anyways , and it has been a practice on any engine to install the correct sparkplugs for 30 years or more. I have been working on used cars since 1978 , so I know a bit about how sickening it is to do things wrong.
If you lived nearby in fact , I could do a bit of work for you on your car and have it ready to roll right in a day or so , at 80% off , instead of $80/hr. Simple tuneups and front end work can be completed in a few hours.
#126 of 232 stalling/ engine cuts off issue
Aug 09, 2011 (2:19 pm)
my 99 300m recently has also started having this problem. It will start fine and run well but when i come to a stop light or sometimes slow down, it will stall or just die. Sometimes it wont restart unless i hit the gas a bit. Also I've started to hear a slight tapping sound. I hear it after the engine has gotten warm and mostly when im stopped at a light but not when the car is being driven even at the lowest speed. What could be causing this? Any and all help would be appreciated. By the way it has 184500 miles on it and I've kept the oil changed like clockwork. Im wondering it its the crank sensor, fuel pump or distributor. As for the tapping Im hoping its not the rocker arm.
#127 of 232 Re: stalling/ engine cuts off issue [morgan71]
Aug 10, 2011 (8:40 am)
sounds like it could be EGR valve
try driving it with the OBD II code reader
attached and look for intermittent EGR error codes
#128 of 232 Re: stalling/ engine cuts off issue [danfishinman]
Aug 11, 2011 (12:51 pm)
thanks for the info, will give it a try tomorrow when i drop it off at my mech. will keep you posted.
thanks again for your help.
#129 of 232 Re: stalling/ engine cuts off issue [morgan71]
Aug 12, 2011 (12:22 pm)
morgan71 : When stalling occurs , the first thing you should check is the Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) Sensor on the drivers side of the engine Plenum (Black Plastic Air Intake). This MAP sensor is responsible for feeding signals to the PCM , which in turn is "Primary" in the calculation and regulation of the air/fuel mixture (according to the Chrysler Service Manuals). "Primary" means , that if your MAP Sensor is failing or leaking , the PCM cannot calculate the intake pressure - therefor all other sensor readings and calculation will be incorrect or adversely effected. To test the MAP Sensor , fill a spray bottle with water , and while the engine is running at idle , spray a short burst directly onto the MAP sensor mounting/seal area on the Plenum. If the engine idle speed is effected , it is time to check the O-ring seals/replace them , remove sensor & clean with compressed air or replace the MAP Sensor itself. Note also , that when at highway speed the engine vacuum will be much greater , so replacing the 2 O-rings is a good idea regardless of any leak test results at idle or increased RPM - due to load factors. If your MAP Sensor has a provision on it's shaft for 2 O-rings , you will note a difference if only 1 is installed. A positive seal is a MUST , which includes any hoses etc. connected to the air intake distribution duct etc. (ie : brake vacuum booster). "Any loss of vacuum decreases the amount of available air in the Plenum".
Incorrect spark plugs can also effect engines in this way. The correct spark plugs for the 3.5L engine are : NGK Laser Platinum Premium ZFR5LP-13G , while ANY other spark plug can cause fuel calibration problems - due to unburned vapors (flooding).
As far as ticking goes , you should be looking firstly at what type of oil filter you regularly use. From my experience on my 2002 300M Special , I noted that the Fram oil filter was , not only very cheap , but - the original filter I took off was : hardly filled (not much in the filter when removed) , and when shaken (there was a sloppy sloshing sound when empty) - meaning the filter had just soaked up oil and became nothing but a soggy piece of cardboard. To the contrary , most filters will remain solid (when removed , emptied and shaken - no sloppy sloshing sound is present). I highly recommend using either a Mopar oil filter or a K&N oil filter (# HP2004 for 3.5L) - as the K&N has a anti-backflow stopper that prevents "dry starts". When I installed the K&N filter , it did allow oil to be available to the upper engine components earlier , where no rattle or slightly abnormal sounds were present prior to that at initial startup. This speaks volumes about whether or not your oil (especially if already contaminated by abnormal engine deposits) , is being filtered , and any deposits are being trapped by the oil filter. Also , the K&N oil filter is very easy to install or remove , as it has a built-in hex nut welded to the mounting end - where you simply use a 1" hex or open end wrench to either remove or install it (a very good feature). There are also other characteristics that the K&N oil filter provide : such as a extra thick walled design (for racing engines) - where the filter cannot become punctured or crack/explode. For twice the cost , it is a no-brainer (and your engine deposits will have been collected and stored between oil changes) - not circulated throughout the engine with a cardboard substance (wood)? Consider that Fram oil filters are being sold below the cheapest cost of almost any oil filter. This strikes a cord in me - because if I remember correctly - Fram used to advertise that you could use their oil filters without the need to change them at each oil change (suggesting a higher value).
A bit of oil filter history : When I bought my car in March/11 , there was a Fram PH16 oil filter on the engine (which had some sort of chalk marks on it) , so I replaced it immediately with another new Fram PH16. When I removed the original Fram PH16 , the sloppy sloshing sound was present. When I removed the new Fram PH16 after just 30 days (no daily driving) , it too had the sloppy sloshing sound present when empty. Then I changed to the K&N oil filter - which made the slight engine noises stop immediately at startup. In another couple of months I will again , change the filter to another K&N oil filter - and note any heavy or abnormal deposits from the oil filter drainage fluid.
Checking these 3 areas of components , should produce results - before you have the vehicle checked at a dealer or with a DRB III testing unit for fault codes or suspicious problem areas. Note also , that any checking with any digital tester - depends on having "normal" component conditions , to achieve a proper or good diagnosis for repair/replacements.
#130 of 232 Re: stalling/ engine cuts off issue [pitmanoeuvre]
Aug 13, 2011 (11:08 am)
Well now the car just cranks and wont start at all. I turned the key back and forth without starting it to get the trouble code and it gave me p1694. I looked it up and this is what i found "No CCD Messages Received From ECM". I am assuming that this means the ECM is gone. What do you think? Any suggestions. Also thank you for your reply and the info you gave me. I just took it to the shop today and told them whats wrong and what i found.
Let me know what you think it could be.